Re: list moderation

[Alexandre François Garreau]

Le dimanche 3 novembre 2019, 22:34:04 CET Ludovic Courtès a écrit :
> Hi Brandon,
> 
> Brandon Invergo <brandon@gnu.org> skribis:
> > For the past month or so, every message to the list has been subject to
> > moderation, so-called "emergency moderation".  It has become clear that
> > the moderation was being used in a biased manner.  We have decided to
> > remove Mark and Carlos as moderators/admins and to turn off the
> > emergency moderation.  We will not place any restriction on the topic of
> > discussion beyond what is outlined in the pre-existing list guidelines.
> 
> Who is “we” in “we have decided” above?

I guess either him and the other new moderator, either some of the teams he’s 
part of and already noted the existence on some thread on this list.  But 
given the context, the former would be more obvious, while the later more 
legitimatly understandable.

> I think Mark and Carlos have done a great job.  I am happy that this
> list was host to constructive discussions and not as toxic as the
> private GNU lists.  I am concerned that about the ability to continue
> discussing constructively going forward.

I wished /ignore was more simple with common MUA so people who likes 
moderation can keep being as able discussing as in moderated environments.

> I am also disappointed that you, Brandon, took the liberty to remove
> those who had added you as a moderator.  That looks, at best,
> discourteous.

I guess it depends where the “moderator power” (and) legitimacy comes from… 
Wait, who added them as moderators? I’m a bit lost now.

> Can you explain how “moderation was being used in a biased manner”,
> giving specific examples?

I like specific examples.  That strives for better formalization and 
rationalization of what is going on, what people want and what can be done.  
But this applies for all parties.  As well as for “when what was toxic” (imho 
personal insults (against Charity principle (yet understandable because of 
emotions)) as against Sandra, the Medium poster (forgot the name) or rms, 
accusations (against hanlon razor (yet understandable because of 
disinformation)) as against rms and… probably others)) as for “when moderation 
was bad” (imho always, it can go from “shutting down a topic arbitrarily for 
everybody” to “censoring almost-spamers like Jean-Louis”, going through 
censoring Ruben Safir for being heated and sometimes insulting, or anyone for 
an opinion) as for “when did rms’ behavior undermine the empowerment of so 
many users” (as far as I heard, abort() joke, emacs virgin joke,  “MIT 
episode”, and “women alienation” testimonies linked to twitter by Andy Wingo 
on his blog wingolog.org (“having personally had doubts about pedophilia harm 
and child consent several years ago” was only picked by someone external to 
the joint statement)… and nothing more? do we agree this is exhaustive (yet 
still unstatisfying to some) list? “being the chief in a non-democratic 
organization” and the frustration coming with it, too, maybe, I guess?).