Re: GNUstep on Hackernews

[Riccardo Mottola]

Hi,

Graham Lee wrote:
> Hi all,
>
>
> *From: * Riccardo Mottola <riccardo.mottola@libero.it>
> *To: * Liam Proven <lproven@gmail.com>, discuss-gnustep
> <discuss-gnustep@gnu.org>
> *Sent: * 14/12/2021 3:29 PM
> *Subject: * Re: GNUstep on Hackernews
>
>
>     They evaluated us and discarded GNUstep on what basis? I had no
>     interaction with any of them nor did i see things on the mailing list.
>
>
> The hello system thing was preceded by Livestep, which was fully
> GNUstep based and which Steven and I almost used as the basis for the
> [objc retain]; stream before switching to Debian. The design rationale
> for hello describes Qt as a pragmatic choice for UI toolkit while
> GNUstep "doesn't really leap forward into the present
> time" 
> https://github.com/helloSystem/hello/wiki/Welcome-and-unwelcome-technologies.

That's an opinion and he is free to retain it. While the list for me of
"unwelcome technologies" is shared, what he writes for "welcome" is
absolutely not shared with me, I would put those under unwelcome easy,
especially Python and Go. With mDNSResponder vs Avahi we share the idea,
but perhaps here my BSD and Darwin legacy chimes in.
So for me, interest in helloSystem stops here. A lot of nice work is
flowing in I see.

For me GNUstep is present time. It has a couple of shortcomings, but
none that make s it so that apps cannot be done with.

>
> That's one of those frustrating ideas that is probably part perception
> and part reality (probono did after all make a full GNUstep live image
> and worked on PureDarwin so has reached this conclusion from a
> position of some experience) but that doesn't have enough information
> to resolve. _What_ does a "present time" Cocoa reimplementation have,
> or look like, that GNUstep lacks? Does GNUstep actually lack that? We
> could ask him…I doubt to change his mind back to adopting GNUstep, but
> to see where what we have and what others want can come together.

I don't need to "convince" anybody, propobopd may make his choices. I
worked with probonopd on some points, but I didn't find it very
constructive. If the only concept is "mac is more advanced/better" and
you inted GNUstep to copy Mac, then for me things stop there. While
Cocoa is interesting, this does not hold in my opinion for the evolution
of the Mac interface in the course of years.
Maybe it also attitude. IN the same group also Bertrand was involved and
it was a pleasure to collaborate with him and things evolved and this
year many Apps improved thanks to that.
Stay tuned for the next releases!

Of course, i hope you will continue to be interested in GNUstep. We
might discuss the best way to make a reference distribution too, but
that's a separate topic. I have some main issues as an approach there
(having had past collaboration with Richard), we can discuss it in
another thread.

Cheers,

Riccardo